Ratchet and Clank is one of the most beloved Sony and PlayStation-exclusive franchises, dating all the way back to 2002 on the PlayStation 2. As part of the many games in the franchise, Ratchet and Clank also got a reboot in 2016 for PlayStation 4. After five years with no new Ratchet and Clank entry, Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart was announced to the delight of fans everywhere.
Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart not only looks amazing on PlayStation 5, but lets fans enjoy a new adventure with Ratchet and Clank. It also introduces players to brand new characters like Rivet, a female Lombax, and Ms. Zurkon, a weapons merchant. These well-received new characters are voiced by Mass Effect alum Jennifer Hale and Courtenay Taylor. In an interview with Game Rant, Hale and Taylor discussed their new roles, the widespread influence of Mass Effect, and more. This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Q: You both have careers filled with diverse roles, how do these in Ratchet and Clank compare? Anything you drew on from past work?
Hale: For me, I think it's true of most voice actors, we spend our career being as diverse as we possibly can. So, yeah, just drawing on the skill set that we've built over the years, that's what I can say for myself is just drawing on that.
Taylor: I didn't have anything, Ms. Zurkon was kind of waiting to bust out of me for a long time. I spent a lot of time in Texas when I was a kid, so I was drawing more on people that I remember and a dear friend of mine and her sort of vivaciousness, and it just kind of ... I did three takes for her when I auditioned for her, so I definitely had a lot of ideas and we just kind of boiled it down with the writers and she became who she was but I don't think I've ever played a character like her before.
She's so much different, it's funny, once they started talking about releasing the game I went back and looked at the original Mrs. Zurkon and it was such a fun, divergent path for this version of her, so I'm glad the writers made her so much fun.
Hale: Ugh, the writers on this game, I could go on and on about them all day! Just, wonderful, so wonderful.
Q: What was the initial pitch for Rivet/Zurkon and how long have you been working on the character?
Taylor: I think the original sides that I got, she was actually supposed to be like a cool, rockabilly chick. So it's funny, I think [one of] my original versions of her was sort of more cool, younger... she sort of turned into, I love somebody from England said on Twitter she was sort of like this, "crazy Southern mum who just wants you to have everything that you want.” And I think she turned out, I mean I adore her but I wouldn't call her cool. *laughs* So I think that got thrown out somewhere in there.
Hale: I mean, for Rivet I just remember seeing the audition sides and I just went purely on instinct, what my heart connected to who she was and jumped in and I remember that writing literally took over. Our part of character creation comes after we get in the booth, it comes from there.
Q: Do you hope to see Rivet continue on in the Ratchet and Clank series? Do you think she should get her own series?
Taylor: I sure do! Yes, she should!
Hale: *laughs* I will agree, I'll agree with all that. Although, I want her to bring along all her buds from where we are now because it's an incredible group of people. It's the funnest, funnest group. Oh my god, yes, more Rivet, more Rivet all day. All day, every day. Love it.
Q: You’ve both played strong female characters—How do Rivet and Ms. Zurkon fit into that concept?
Hale: One of the things I've really enjoyed about Rivet is that she's a departure from so much of what I have been playing in terms of what's traditionally been defined as a strong female character. Someone with a really deep voice and a heavy history and a heavy heart, and that's the trick about Rivet is she's definitely got a heavy history and a heavy heart, but she doesn't live there. She's optimistic and she's fierce but she's not overbearing. She's determined without being heavy all the time. She's just so, so fun.
Taylor: I think Ms. Zurkon is definitely like a big character, although she is certainly strong, I love that she's sort of a bull in a china shop when it comes to...I imagine her with like big boobs and her big voice and bringing everybody in for a big hug and she's sort of that, like grandma /auntie character that isn't heavy.
She's just got this really strong personality and she's having a really good time doing something that she hasn't done before. I love that she's super loud but is talking about being a spy. She doesn't realize how much of a bull in a china shop she is, but she's having a great time which is a big departure from a lot of the characters that I've played.
Hale: There's not a lot of suffering in this game. There's certainly a lot of obstacles, but you only want Nefarious to be the one who suffers, right?
Q: Since Rivet is basically an alternate dimension version of Ratchet and Ms. Zurkon is a female version of Mr. Zurkon, did you work with James Arnold Taylor or Marc Graue at all to find the character?
Hale: No, I mean, definitely Rivet, you know, she's a Lombax, just like Ratchet, but she has a very different approach to things, especially machines, and a very different history from Ratchet. So I was able to work very independently, and I love love love James Arnold Taylor.
When I found out that this was what I was working on, I was over the moon! It was so hard to keep it a secret, I was like, “Oh my god, this is an NDA that's really weighing on me!” So I have huge regard, respect, just adoration for James Arnold Taylor and all of his work. But Rivet stood as separate to Ratchet.
Taylor: I didn't even know until this moment that Mark Graue was Zurkon! And I think the cool thing is that Ms. Zurkon is Ms. Zurkon in this game. And so, maybe they just decided she's an independent woman who doesn't need a man in this dimension. But no, I did not, he did not figure into my portrayal of Ms. Zurkon. I think, you know, she's doing it all by herself.
Q: So you would say you both got a lot of creative liberty and being able to feel out the characters for yourselves, rather than trying to parallel them in any way?
Both: Oh, yeah!
Taylor: The writers were so incredible about letting me add in all of these little folksy sayings that I'd picked up over the years, or things that one of my family members lived in Texas that I used to go and visit my family there as a kid. They were sort of entranced that I would say “teeinty” instead of “tiny” or “little,” just little things like that they were tickled and they were like, "Oh, keep that, keep that!" So yeah, it was a wonderful collaboration that the team that I worked with were very much open. They have the thing on the page and then whatever you're bringing into the room is the thing they're after, [it’s] that kind of trifecta of you and them and what you make together, that's the point of the triangle.
I love that because in certain situations you'll work with people who hear something in their head before you're even in the room and they want you to match that. And that's great, but it's a really juicy, fun experience when they're like, "Whatcha got? Great, let's put it together with what we got, and we'll make a thing."
Hale: The team on this was amazing, ah-mazing. I mean, Kris Zimmerman Salter voice directed my sessions and she's just unreal. I mean, the writers, I could just go on for this long, crazy list of people and probably mess up half their names, but I adore them and I think they're extraordinary.
Q: Sounds like it was a lot of fun to be able to not only create these characters and read what was on the page, but to have that collaboration.
Hale: Very much so.
Taylor: And you know, that's the beauty of the way it's structured, too. In many situations it's not on the writers or anything, you just have a certain amount of time that you have to deliver because you're reading against cinematics, and things like that you have a certain amount of time that you have to deliver the lines in. So there isn't a lot of room for false starts and stutters and fun little things that you're bringing to the party. And that's great, that's one way of doing it and it works really well. I think the way that they ran the sessions and the way that they wrote this and the way that they delivered this game is reflected in the game itself and so that's why people are so excited about it.
And they can feel the love and joy and good time that the team's had. It seems incredibly evident to me just watching it, you know, I watched the trailer when that dropped and I was just grinning like an idiot because everyone, no matter how much they're in the game, they're just like "I'm that first voice you hear in the trailer!" People are like "I'm in there, yeah! I'm part of this!" because you can just tell how much love went into it.
Q: In a similar vein, how did you go about making Rivet stand apart as her own character and not feel like a copy of Ratchet?
Hale: It helps that I don't play games! *laughs* You know, I see cutscenes a lot and I watch gameplay a lot so I can stay on top of the mechanics and stuff, but honestly, I just honor what's on the page and what's on the page is her own spirit. I don't work from “outside in,” I work from “inside out,” well “outside in” in the sense that the page is what sparks me, and then I just stay true to that spark with the guidance of the voice directors and the writers in the room, I just stay true to that and it takes care of itself.
Taylor: It's so important, too, to recognize that it doesn't matter, even if you're saying Jennifer and I have both been female player characters, you do get a different experience any time. That's what's so important as actors, I think it doesn't happen as much in voice acting as it does in other types of acting, there's this idea that you have to protect whatever comes your way and it's yours, and if you help someone else get it, that somehow you're having less. But I think that what is totally evident and I think most voice actors really embrace that whatever is filtered through me cannot be the same as filtered through anyone else.
And so, the thing that I love about this community is that so often people will be like, "Yeah, I'll coach you on the same sides," or "I'm stoked that if I'm not gonna get it, I want my friends to get it," or sometimes, "I'm not the right person for this, but I know who is." And that generosity of spirit that happens in our community and so often we all do read the same lines and you'll be “Soldier Number Two” and “Soldier Number Two” is reading the exact same thing as “Soldier Number Four” you know, and you make it your own through your voiceprint, your heart, your mind, your experiences.
Hale: Or, if we're player characters, and there's this one project where I'm a player character and there are at least four or five other player character choices you can make and we have identical lines. And some of us are really similar in our age and our being and how we approach things, but it's different because we're different people.
Q: How much direction did the devs give you when it came to Ms. Zurkon's characterization?
Taylor: I mean, they really had stuff on the page that was already hilarious, I mean I did not have to do anything, I was inspired by what was on the page. So I researched stuff [like] I paid attention to the things I watched on TV, I looked on the internet for fun things, the beauty of voice acting is that you're always kind of doing that. I'll get inspired by a character and just read up on where they're from, or what type of job they have, or something like that because as a voice actor, you're always kind of, I imagine us like with one of those sacks over our backs and we're constantly picking up different chestnuts and walnuts and throwing them in the bag.
And it might not be something that works like you might throw it out in a session and someone might say "Oh, that doesn't work," or whatever, but because when we get in the booth we don't have a lot of time to create a character as voice actors, we just kind of say, "Hey, this is what I prepared, what do you think of this version?" And they say, "I like that version, great, let's go with that." And you get in the booth and you just start going. So it was great to have been doing this when I was younger and not really even knowing it, but kind of keeping these little phrases and speaking styles for this character from the women that I knew on the coast of Texas, like down in Texas City and Kemah.
It's so much more fun as a voice actor, I think, when you're trying to see what you can contribute as opposed to doing it “right” or doing what they want because you always get the opportunity to do what they want. They're gonna direct you on that, and that's why voice directing is so important, they're gonna give you the information, but if you can bring more to the party you can throw out those chestnuts and walnuts and they can be like, "Yeah, we'll take that one, not that one, no that doesn't work." And then you feel like you're even more part of the process, so they were very very generous.
It's so great, the sort of norm, at least in on-camera acting, is "play what you know," and I never play what I know. I mean, I do in my heart and the nature of the character, but there's not that many punk rock characters from San Francisco. I'd say 90 percent of the time I'm playing a character that looks nothing like me or my experiences on the page, so it's fun to be able to flesh out the outside part;, the speaking, the standing, the turn of phrase, and that kind of stuff and then marry it with what is in your heart and your mind and your experiences to create something new.
Q: With the recent release of Mass Effect: Legendary Edition, a whole new audience is likely to discover Commander Shepard. Are you excited by that prospect?
Taylor: Yes!
Hale: Absolutely!
CT: Can you tell I'm a huge fan of my friend Jen?
Hale: And I'm a huge fan of my friend Courtenay Taylor! I'm so excited about this, it's amazing. I think the game looks incredible. You know, we didn't record anything new for this, they took what they had and just brought it up to the technical standards that are now and the platforms that are now and I think they did an incredible job with it. And yeah, I'm over the moon.
Taylor: It's so important, Jen changed games for you know, for female actors and for people who play games. This role is a seminal role in game history and so to see people be able to see, for a large part, where it started. FemShep kind of created the norm of having a female player character and the fact that it's a point of pride that I can look at this game and they didn't record anything new because the acting in it is still amazing; it stands the test of time, the writing stands the test of time.
Yes, there are certain things that are a little less pertinent than they were ten, twelve years ago, but the heart of the story, the sort of moral conundrums, those things are still pertinent. I think it's so great to have these characters that people have fallen in love with be introduced to a whole new generation. It's so sweet, you know, what an incredible team, what an incredible project. Big ups to Jennifer Hale, for sure.
Hale: Thank you so much, and you know big ups to BioWare for taking that step and for taking all these things that at the time were... it's so hard to believe that when we started those things were taboo or dangerous and scary steps to have a same-sex relationship and to have all the options that they had and take the steps they took and do the things they did with narrative and even to have a male and female player who's lines are identical for the most part. And how that was so groundbreaking and now it's expected. I will say it will always be a career and life high to have been the one who got to play that role, who got to put on the boots and join the team to kick down those doors. It's, yeah, wow. And I'm really excited for everyone to discover how awesome it is.
Q: Similar to Commander Shepard, Jack has been a character that fans have latched onto. Can you talk about the response from fans?
Taylor: Well, I think originally, at least what I responded to, was that she sort of was an atypical female character. Just the way she looked was off-putting for a lot of people, I remember reading the boards, which is a big no-no, when the game was coming out when her trailer came out and people were like, "Oh I hate her, I'm gonna shoot her out the airlock, I'm gonna kill her the first chance I get." And she was somebody who was a prime example of people judging [and] the initial judgment was wrong and she won a lot of people over with her story arc. And that was a product of great writing but also that, for me, it really resonated because as a kid I shaved all my hair off, I had a mohawk, and people were very much like, treated me like I was "from space."
So for me, it was a sweet end result that so many people did like her and were touched by her story and that really the main message for me from Jack was that you are greater than the sum of what has happened to you. And that what happens to you or is done to you is not who you are and you can change and you are worthy of loving and being loved and that little girls and little boys could look at her character and understand that there is a different kind of femininity than what gets put out by the media and makeup, fashion, and all that kind of stuff. That it is a wonderful thing to walk your own path with how you look and who you love and that you can come around from your original way of dealing with things to stuff that's maybe a little bit more healthy. *laughs*
Hale: Growth and change is possible! And you matter no matter what your background.
Taylor: Exactly.
Q: I didn't realize people responded so negatively to Jack when she debuted.
Hale: I didn't either. Leave Courtenay alone!
Taylor: Well you know what too, I'm gonna say that I for sure, as an actor you get one crappy review and 99 great ones and you're like, "Oh my god I'm the worst I have no talent." So, you know, maybe there were only a couple but it seemed like a lot to me. So those are just the ones I remember. But they were eclipsed by people coming up to me at conventions and talking about how the way she looked, the way her strength and stuff really struck a chord with them. You know, she wasn't a character that I would think people would be like, "I'm so glad to show my nieces this character." And I'm like, "Oh, interesting!"
Q: Along that same line, can either of you share your thoughts about how they changed Jack's sexuality to be straight instead of being pansexual?
Taylor: It's funny because I very much remember when we recorded, pansexual was something that [twelve years ago] was not a term that was very in the day to day lexicon, so I very much remember her being pansexual and recording stuff that I was like, "Oh okay great." And then it was like a slow burn and then it didn't ever occur to me, because I don't play games, that it wasn't in there. So only when there were some articles published, I guess last year [or] mid last year, did it come up where I was like, "Oh yeah, I guess you can't really." I mean people had mentioned that you couldn't do a same-sex romance, but I wasn't aware that the whole thing had gotten 86'd, which I don't know what the reasons were.
Of course, for me personally, I'm always a fan of representation for all. I pride myself on being an ally for the Queer community, and so if it's not in there I'm thrilled that they're modding that it is and you know, that whether or not it got out there, the knowledge is out there and now [it’s] a possibility in games. That people are starting to factor that kind of stuff in, so even though it maybe didn't work out for this game, hopefully, it was a step to inspire people to put it in more games because it's really important. Just, your gender, your sexuality, your ethnicity, all these things be represented, so the more the better.
Hale: Yeah, inclusion!
Taylor: It's what's for dinner.
Q: It is disappointing on the one hand, but on the other hand it does bring awareness and hopefully things change for future games, like you said.
Taylor: I think that's the best we can hope for or that for every person, and that's a lesson I've learned in so many ways. Like just because something doesn't work out the way you want it to, the fact that it even gets discussed, that pushes more ships out on the water to go places and have people be like, "Well then I'm gonna make sure it's in my game." I believe that having conversations, discussions, and debates about this kind of stuff brings awareness and inclusion and familiarity, because a lot of people don't know and that's where fear and prejudice comes from is not knowing. So, keep talking about it.
Q: What was most difficult about voicing Rivet/Ms. Zurkon?
Hale: Um, this is gonna sound crazy but, nothing. *laughs* I love her so much! Yes, I do know the most difficult thing, keeping my mouth shut about it, that was the single most difficult thing! Because I'm a mom, right, and this is one of the first games I've done where I'm actually shoving my kid towards it going, "Hey, check this out!" Which probably means he'll be less interested in it, but that's okay. No, I don't actually do it that way, I just say "Hey, there's one you can do, I can't tell you what it is but there's one you can do." Now I can tell him what it is.
Taylor: It was hard for me because I just wanted more, and you know there's only so much Ms. Zurkon you can put into a game and I appreciate people being so kind about it. You know, I know she's a smaller character but [I had] so much fun in the sessions where I was like, "C'mon DLC! Zurkon family goes on vacation!"
Hale: *laughs* Yes! I'd watch that all day.
Q: Are there any characters you’ve connected with the most during your voice acting career?
Hale: You know, aw man, there are several that I've connected to deeply. I mean Rivet is absolutely one, Commander Shepard is one, weirdly Cinderella is one, Princess Morbucks has a special place in my heart, Thorn from the Hex Girls because I freaking love the singing and being that character. The greatest thing for me though is the variety. It's the fact that, as voice actors, we get to do so many different things and that is my favorite thing.
Taylor: I mean Jack was definitely so much of a letting go of a lot of ideas that I had about myself and who I was when I was younger and getting a chance to kind of work that out. But also, K.O. from OK K.O.! Let's Be Heroes I had not done, you know, he's a six to eleven-year-old boy who wants to be a hero and is full of love and trust that everyone is gonna do the right thing. So I got to channel this whole new part of myself because that is not a character I've played in games, so I got to find this joy in a really, really difficult time in my life personally.
I'd be able to go into Cartoon Network into the booth with my friends on the show and just kind of forget about what was going on in my personal life, so it really did harness this part of me. I think K.O. changed who I am just as much as playing Jack did as well. Jack was very healing and K.O. was very sort of inspiring about what kind of person that I could be and show people. This is all therapy! You guys are just watching and listening to my therapy. *laughs*
Q: Hey, you can't get better than paid therapy!
Taylor: Exactly! It's like getting paid to work out, yes!
Hale: Sign me up.
[END]
Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart is available now for PS5.