Based on Neil Gaiman’s DC comics series, Netflix’s The Sandman explores a place called the Dreaming, where The Sandman (a.k.a Dream) brings his subject’s deepest fears and fantasies to visualization. After his impromptu disappearance, Dream must right some wrongs, and revisit his friends and enemies. Developed and executive produced by Gaiman, showrunner Allan Heinberg, and David S. Goyer, the fantasy series unfolds over ten chapters, and features an all-star cast including Tom Sturridge, Boyd Holbrook, Patton Oswalt, Vivienne Acheampong, Gwendoline Christie, Charles Dance, Jenna Coleman, David Thewlis, Stephen Fry, Kirby Howell-Baptiste, and more.
Game Rant had the opportunity to chat with Ferdinand Kingsley, best known for playing Irving Thalberg in Mank, Neville Catchlove in a 2017 episode of Doctor Who, and Mr. Francatelli in the British historical drama Victoria. In the Netflix series, Kingsley steps into the role of Hob Gadling—a problematic, yet crucial character—which he landed after initially auditioning to play Dream. In our interview, we spoke about his relationship with The Sandman comics, his audition process, and Hob's journey throughout the series.
But first, a quick character breakdown: Dream and Hob meet in the 14th century at a pub. Dream, who is visiting with Death, overhears Hob talking wistfully about eternal life—something which Dream cannot fathom. As an experiment, Dream decides to grant Hob immortality, under the guise that he'll tap out after 100 years or so. The two meet every 100 years at the same pub to catch up, and at the end of each conversation, Hob insists that he is not ready to die. Over the next hundreds of years, he suffers many hardships and temporarily enters the slave trade to gain riches, a decision which he learns to regret.
Game Rant: How did you get involved with The Sandman?
Ferdinand Kingsley: I was about to weave some enormous lie about how the whole project was my idea, but the simple truth is that I was allowed to audition. I was actually in one of the early waves of people auditioning to play Dream. Obviously, they saw Tom [Sturridge] and instantly thought he's perfect. So, at that point, I was just excited that they were making it and thought, “Well, you know, I've had a bash, and I'll just watch it in a couple of years.” I'll sit on the sofa and go, “Oh, did you know I actually auditioned for that?” I’d be a bit bitter about it, but that's what I do for most of my days.
But then they sent through Hob, and I didn't know much about him even though I was a Sandman fan, thanks to my older brother. I looked at the sides, and then I went back to the comics, and I went, “Yeah, I think this is going to be alright.” I auditioned for the part thinking, “Well, now I can sit on the sofa and say ‘Did you know I auditioned twice?’” But then, relatively quickly, I got the role.
GR: That is so awesome. You mentioned that you were a fan of The Sandman when you were younger. How did you discover the comics?
Kingsley: I have all the comics. My older brother Ed was huge fan when he was 15 or 16, so I would have been nine or 10. I was just aware of this really cool underground obsession, but I didn't really understand that comic books could be a non-superhero thing. As a nine-year-old, your basic understanding of comics is that they're generally about white dudes in capes saving the day. That's what you expect. So, I was introduced to this much weirder, darker world. He kept me away from the bleakest bits, but the philosophical element of it and the idea of someone that would be in charge of your sleeping life was fascinating to me, because I sort of slept awfully as a kid.
GR: Was that because of nightmares or were you just not able to sleep?
Kingsley: I just didn't sleep. I laid out for hours. I first thought this comic was just about a guy that came and poured sand into your eyes to make you go to sleep, and then I learned it was something much deeper than that.
GR: How did it feel when you stepped on set and saw the scenes from the comics created in real life?
Kingsley: It was crazy. The scale of the show was unimaginable. I only got to see a fraction of it, but what I did get to see was this incredible, rich world being made by this unbelievably talented and passionate team. Jon Steele, who was the production designer, made these beautiful pub sets, which always had the same soul at the first pub. In that episode, you can't feel like you're in a different space every time, you need to feel like it's the same building. And it really did.
The team would build one set—one pub—that we were shooting in, and then next door to it, they had the same pub but it was for the next century. A few days later, we go to shoot on that one. Then they take apart the one that we were in before and build it for the next century. It was amazing. There was one day when I walked in to this medieval pub with goats and dogs, and fires and food, and more people than I'd seen in about a year and a half because it was in the middle of the international meltdown, and I thought, "God, this is the dream."
GR: How would you describe your character Hobb and his journey?
Kingsley: He undeniably does have a journey. He's someone who is alive because there is life left to be lived. He makes one unforgivable decision in particular: to enter the slave trade. That was something that we all grappled with in terms of the writing and about whether we can actually portray something that bleak through a character and still to be willing to spend time with him. Eventually, we all agreed that we can't shy away from that because he can't get off scot-free. If you rewrite the comics, he gets off scot-free.
So, we have to have him making the awful, unforgivable decision to enter the slave trade and then live with that forever. Of course, he doesn't have to live with it to the 1,000,000th of a percent that the people who were enslaved had to live with it, but he does have to live with his conscience. That was one of the sides of the character that was hard to relate to and be sympathetic towards, but I had to. It's not my job to offer judgment on the character I'm playing, I have to play him as you see him, and it's our job as an audience to watch him go, “Do I deserve another shot at life?" Can he at least make a positive change in the world from now on? Those are the questions he asks himself every 100 years. I found that really fascinating to engage with, as an actor.
GR: While dealing with that moral dilemma, what was your process of getting in and out of character? How did you avoid taking that heaviness home with you?
Kingsley: I had to remind myself that Hob knows everything up to that day, and nothing later. While he is immortal, he's not prophetic. That's why he decides to stay alive. That's why every century he's so excited to see Dream because he's like, "This has happened, that's happened, this has happened," while not having a clue whether Dream has the benefit of seeing ahead, before, or behind. Hob soaks everything up, and his thirst for the world was something that I could take in every day. When he's hit rock bottom, that's enough to stop him from calling it quits. He thinks, “There's so much to still live for, even though I have nothing but the clothes I'm in, and I'm starving to a skeletal level. There is always a chance that tomorrow is different. There's always the certainty that tomorrow is different.” I love that.
GR: That seems like a great description of the show’s overall takeaway.
Kingsley: Absolutely. Everyone has the ability to change in every episode of the show and in every edition of graphic novels. Everybody is learning and changing, and Dream is as well. Everyone's got something to be taught. The ability to change is at the heart of this show.