No doubt, the controversy surrounding the Mass Effect 3 endings has sparked an especially heated conversation in the gaming industry – dominating news headlines day after day. The debate has been fueled by some mixed messages (as well as perceived indifference) within the BioWare camp – leading one exceptionally frustrated fan to file a complaint with the FTC.
However, while EA and BioWare attempt to make sense of the situation, and find a way to appease angered Mass Effect fans (or not), other fan-favorite developers, Ken Levine and Paul Barnett, are also weighing in with their unbiased opinions on the growing controversy.
Vox Games reports that Levine and Barnett addressed the situation during a question-and-answer session at the Smithsonian American Art museum – where the pair were promoting “The Art of Video Games” exhibit.
In reference to the “current fiasco going on right now with the Mass Effect ending,” one audience member asked the pair, “What do you think of the whole idea where community has influence on making game story?”
Barnett responded first:
“If computer games are art than I fully endorse the author of the artwork to have a statement about what they believe should happen [...] Just as J.K. Rowling can end her books and say that is the end of Harry Potter. I don’t think she should be forced to make another one.”
It’s hard to argue with Barnett’s comments – at least from a artistic standpoint. Ultimately, creative types can do whatever they want – even if their fans don’t approve. That said, unlike J.K. Rowling, who presented a definitive end to the Potter saga, BioWare wants to continue the Mass Effect franchise. As a result, the debate isn’t probably as much about the developer feeling “forced” to alter the ending; instead, it’s likely that they’re feeling strong-armed into finding a way to appease dedicated customers – so that, down the line, these people will continue to support the Mass Effect universe.
Levine also defended BioWare’s right to ending the saga on their terms – as well as addressed the ground swell of outraged fans:
“I think this is an important moment [...] I think if those people got what they wanted and (BioWare) wrote their ending they would be very disappointed in the emotional feeling they got because … they didn’t really create it. I think this whole thing is making me a little bit sad because I don’t think anyone would get what they wanted if that happened.”
Levine is a game fan at heart and many level-headed players (even those who are somewhat frustrated by the Mass Effect 3 endings) likely feel the same way. It’s a tough spot for both fans and the developer – since it’s going to be impossible to please everyone. It’ll be especially tricky since gamers who are angry about the trilogy conclusion aren’t universally rallied around a single problem either – some want more side-character closure, while others were let-down by the lack of affect all of their accumulated decisions had on the finale, among countless other issues.
As we’ve mentioned previously, in the mean time, the best thing we can all do is try to show some patience and provide BioWare with constructive feedback – in an attempt to try and find a middle-ground where both developer and customers can feel satisfied with how their time, energy, and dedication has been invested.
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Source: Vox Games
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Author’s have been known to change there ending. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle has done this. The director of Highlander 2 made a “redo” version known as Highlander 2 Renegade. So changing the ending of media isn’t something new, but didn’t Ken Levine make a FPS? FPS are not known for there choices that change the overall story of the game.
Doyle didn’t change his ending. He just wrote another story after the final fight between Holmes and Moriarty which explained what “actually happened” compared to what Dr. Watson thought happened.
Actually, he did change the ending. He wished to end Sherlock’s journey in order to move on to more respectable literature. That’s what I understand anyway. Sherlock Holmes was serially published pulp fiction and wasn’t respected as what it is today so his desires are understandable.
Ken Levine made System Shock 2 and BioShock (most famously, anyway), while they may not be the Deus Ex or Mass Effect of choices they are great examples of storytelling in video games, therefore, he has every right to have his say.
@Red It was A Study in Scarlet, I think.
@Tender Bioshock 2 had a terrible ending. But that is beside the point. You only really have 2 ending to the Bioshock games, ether good or bad. The choices don’t carry over to Bioshock 3, like they are supposed to in ME3. So no, Ken Levine has never made a game like ME1/2/3, he’s made stand alone FPS’s, which don’t have one fifth the level of choice that ME1 had.
Ken and his team (Irrational Games) didn’t make Bioshock 2, only the first one. Bioshock 2 was the doing of 2K Marin. Now that that’s out of the way, I so-so agree with the rest. Except that Ken Levine and anyone else has the right to say whatever they want on any topic.
eh that makes sense I really didn’t care for Bioshock 2. I didn’t say anything about Ken Levine has every right to have his say, I didn’t say otherwise. I’m just saying he’s never made a game like Mass Effect.
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/334598/interviews/mass-effect-3-weve-brought-back-a-lot-of-what-was-missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway.”
I might be wrong maybe Ken has made a game were the player crafted the story like what was done in Mass Effect, but no one has shown me that game.
Opps** I mean
I didn’t say that Ken Levine doesn’t have the right to have his say, I’m just saying that he’s author point is wrong. Authors have changed there ending before. And they’ll change there ending again in the future.
You don’t even need to go that far out of the genre to find precedent.
Bethesda did exactly what fans are calling for, with Fallout 3′s expansion pack Broken Steel. Fans hated the horrible ending, and Bethesda, actually giving a crap, decided to not only fix it, but include a ton of new content as well.
If Bioware does the same, and puts out an expansion like Awakenings for DA:O, only fixing the ending, and adding further content, then I would consider buying Bioware games once more, but as it stands I’m done with them. I did the same with Square-Enix years ago and haven’t looked back.
Edit: Sorry outside the “medium”, not “genre”.
I picked Sir Arthur Conan Doyle because he’s famous and he wrote long before the internet was invented. I also picked Doyle because the other guy decided to bring up Harry Potter which did have closer at the end.
But yea I love Bethesda for that and there ending wasn’t as bad as ME3′s.
**closure**
Smh, this is beyond ridiculous. Can’t wait til this blows over.
Oh yeah I can’t imagine how hard all of this is for you and your family.
LOL, I think it should be the other way around Fia. I wasn’t raging over the ending I was enjoying the ride. You are pathetic to judge and by the way you brought the game its your fault. Cherise what you own and buy.
…..What?
Do you have any idea, what the Hell you’re talking about? It’s like parts of three different fanboys’ dead posts, were stitched together, and brought back to life, like some incoherent monster. Who, instead of recoiling in terror from fire, is frightened by the English language.
1. You were not raging and “enjoying” the ride. Well congratulations to you! What do you want? An award? you think you’re some kind bastion of maturity? Sure you aren’t raging about the ending, but you have no problem insulting those who don’t do the same! Mission accomplished paragon!
2. I am “pathetic to judge”. Ok…judge what exactly? Is this your first time responding to another human, in type? Are you “pathetic” for “judging” me? Or, is it ok for you to do it.
3. I’m assuming by “brought the game” you mean “bought”. I see, so it’s MY fault, for believing the lies told to everyone by Casey Hudson, and Michael Gamble. What exactly is “my fault”? Would the endings still suck, had I not purchased the game? How am I supposed to know before I play….wha..what?
I’m assuming you mean “cherish what I buy, and own” which is just stupid beyond belief. So by your amazing logic you believe that, once I spend money on something I need to like it? What the F*CK?!?
God, NOTHING you said made any sense at all.
Oh and for the record, I loved the game up until the ending. Absolutely amazing, despite some of the either or decisions seeming “forced”, Tali’s disgustingly lazy face reveal, and the subtle racism of Kai Leng being the only Asian man in the galaxy who happens to be a friggin’ space ninja* (who always defeats my ‘cutscene Shepard’ because he forgets he has biotics and tech, as well as several friends to back him up)
But I digress…
*with a Chinese name.
but other than that I loved the game, they improved almost everything, and it was the most fun of the series.
Jesus H, you’re too lazy to even write my whole name. It’s six god damn letters!
what do people expect? Of course other developers are going to defend a developer’s right to mess up the ending to their own games. What do they want a heavily publicized feud? It’s way easier to side with fellow devs.
You want to see honesty? Read former Bioware lead designer Brent Knowles opinion on the ending. The guy who was in charge of Dragon Age: Origins, who left because of Bioware’s slow decent into crapitude with Dragon age 2.
What do people expect? Of course other developers are going to defend a developer’s right to completely ruin the ending to their own games. What do they want a heavily publicized feud? It’s way easier to side with fellow devs.
You want to see honesty? Read former Bioware lead designer Brent Knowles opinion on the ending. The guy who was in charge of Dragon Age: Origins, who left because of Bioware’s slow decent into crapitude with Dragon age 2.
Dragon Age was amazing. I wondered the whole time why Dragon Age 2 was so different. I never really checked anything out. But that makes perfect sense now.
I honestly have no problem with the ending. What I don’t like however is the fact that no matter what choice you pick, the ending doesn’t really change. Sure the lights are different but, besides that, it always has the same ending. They end up on the planet with the old man telling the kid about Shepard.
And I know some people like the idea of thinking about your own ending. But I would have liked a “what happens after” type of thing like Bioware did in Dragon Age. If you saved the Rachni what do they do? How about the Krogan? The geth? What if because you help cure the Genophage the Turians start a war with the Salarians? I would have loved to read something like that afterwords.
People dnt want a new ending we want an explanation if yu were to alter the endeing just add tht you can allow the synthetics to survive and not destroy the relays in essence allow the univese to make their own descisions like shepard actual wants it to be. I did everything perfect in my second playthru allowing for the geth and quarians to get along and everyone gets along(Full Paragon)
1 is shepard dead or not two endings here
2.IF MASS relays are gone how am i going to get around the univese
3.if yu make a new mass effect will shepard be the main character
4. who the hell are the old man and kid in the end
5.With so many descisions i cant see a way to really please everyone when all the endings end up with eithier death and the destruction of all synthetics(Who i personally worked really hard to keep alive and gud)
Just a little of the things i am utterly confused and pissed off about after several years of commitment to a gr8 team at bioware
5.If yu
I support the artists creativity and their ability to finish their works the way they want but ultimately they are a business and a customer must be willing to pay for their works. Any future Bioware titles will suffer from a disgruntled, unsatisfied fan base especially with Mass Effect 3 and apparently Dragon Age 2 was bad too. It’s a tough blow for any company to recover from and I think it would be in their best interest to listen to their customers in this case. However, they need to make it clear that in the future they WILL NOT alter anymore titles.
To have customers this passionate and up in arms about the conclusion of a video game is not only a testament to Bioware’s success but also to a strong customer base that you do not want to risk losing.
I just watched a video on the Indoctrination theory, and I’m starting to understand the ending. But how did Garrus(one of my squad members in the final mission) get back on the Normandy? And why was the Normandy going through a Mass Relay?
If you’re following the indoctrination theory (which I believe is the most logical explanation), then that question is irrelevant. According to that theory, the Normandy going through a Mass Relay was fake. It was Shepard’s subconscious reassuring him that everything will be all right. According to that theory, everything after Shepard gets shot by Harbinger is an illusion.
If games are art, then Mass Effect is bad art. If indoc theory is correct, then it’s a NON ENDING. We have no idea what happens with the universe, still breathing Shepard. ect…
The gameplay is still fun and i love the multiplayer, but from an RPG/Story perspective, its Highlander twoish.
The Indoctrination theory (which, after that phone app came out, is unlikely) doesn’t make the ending suck any less. It means that we were sold an incomplete game, and that the ENDING is being withheld for more money.
I don’t understand how that makes everything all better. If anything, people should be MORE pissed. Because it’s still bad, no matter what. Only with ‘indoctrination’ it’s worse, because they want to gouge us for more money.
Very true we already dished out 60+ dollars for the game that isnt complete! I for one isnt getting mad at bioware but EA they know what their doing making money.
Yeah it would make them soooooo sad to change their ending. As long as EA and Bioware pry our money out of our hands they will be happy no matter how many times they change the ending
If you will do some research, Bioware only gets about 3% or what the game sells, whereas EA gets about 12%. Bioware is only big because EA says they’re big. Bioware does what EA tells them. I would gladly pay an extra $10-$20 for the answers to the ending. You wouldn’t be anywhere near as upset if they charged $80 up front for the entire game rather than $60, then $20 later. You’re spending the same amount of money either way. Who’s to say that games have to be $60? Several games that come out are $40, some are $80, most are $60, but just consider ME3 a $80 game that you haven’t finished paying for.
That is honestly a VERY valid point….but I don’t think that the ending should ever be the part of the game you have to pay extra for. It’s just not right.
Wow I can’t even begin to explain to you the sheer number of things wrong with what you just said. It’s absolutely staggering, the total failure of logic on such a grand scale.
let’s start at the beginning
1. Bioware is only big, because EA says so.
WRONG. Bioware was big before EA bought their parent company. EA bought their parent company, in part, because they were big.
2. You wouldn’t be as upset, if the game cost $80.
WRONG. We’d be more upset. An ending shouldn’t cost an additional 20 dollars.
3. We’re spending the same amount either way. Yes in your ridiculous fantasy situation, we are. But that isn’t REALITY. In reality, Bioware was pleased with the endings, and had no plans to add to them. This is their words. The reality is that, what you saw was what you got. They said that future DLC would be set in the past, not future. There were no plans to create a ‘true’ ending.
4. You’d gladly pay 20 bucks to have questions answered? I’d like to stop for a moment, to thank you sarcastically, for being part of the biggest problem in gaming.
5. I’m going to consider ME3 a good game, with a horrible, unsatisfying ending, that I paid the standard price for. I’m not going to pretend that a magical hope-filled ending, is on the way, and I certainly won’t rejoice to have to pay extra for it. DLC is made to add longevity to gaming, not to provide a basic, principle part of the narrative.
6. Really? Which games are $80? The ones that come with a huge mess of other stuff?
Why are fans being insulted for simply wanting what they were promised/paid for? This is ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. I, as a fan, was told that in the end of the game I would be able to see the consequence of ALL of my choices. Yet, upon beating the game I get…one ending. With a slightly different explosion based off of my ONE affecting choice. Then with an ending that physically does not make sense, (Why is Joker in a Mass Relay BEFORE the fight is over, why are my squadmates from ON EARTH in the same cutscene, how can my massive army get out of Sol without the Relay, and lastly how did ANYONE survive the explosion of the Mass Relay, since it infact upon exploading would kill the entire star system?) These are all relevant and realistic questions. I do not see how I will be able to continue to enjoy this universe in future games, also something Bioware promised, without the relays.
I’m not going out and hitting Bioware employees. I’m not even “petitioning” for Christ’s sake! All I want is reasonable and realistic answers. You promised me something, I paid for it, and now it isn’t there. I’m tired of people who haven’t even played the game telling me that this is irrational, or the people who only played ME3 saying that it makes sense.
On my main account, I have spent over 180+ hours of my own personal time, playing and enjoying it. That is not including my 4 or 5 other playthroughs. 180+ hours of sheer enjoyment and entertainment should not be spoiled by less than 10 minutes of rushed script.
Furthermore, I believe that it is unlawful and immoral for Bioware to expect me to pay for the ending(*S*) I was promised, but if the DLC does what it should, I probably will anyways, because I love this story that much. But…I paid for whatever DLC is coming in April when I bought the game. I was even willing to silently pay 10$ extra for a character that was already on the disc, because I love this game and didn’t mind supporting it, but it would merely be theft to make me pay more for the actual ending.
One thing that has failed to be addressed or noted by any of the people bashing us for “wanting to change an artists art” is that Bioware…is not the artist. I AM! I sculpted this story out the way I saw fit. If I’m Renegade or Paragon I shouldn’t have the same ending.
I fail to see any irrational or unreasonable thought in the above mentioned. I was never asking for a fairytale, I was simply asking for something real. Something that, when I did finally beat it at 3am on a school night, I would lay my head down with a smile, satisfied that my story was complete. Bioware honestly did cut me pretty deep this time, and while I will probably continue to make purchases from them, I can assure you, I will be very hesitant on all of them from now on. If this makes me a moron, a bad person, or an unloyal fan, I guess that’s what I am.
Exactly. Couldn’t have said it better myself. I was lying to myself, saying “The ending is so ridiculous Bioware couldn’t possibly expect us to believe it’s the *real* ending…” —-just so I could pick up the controller and start a second playthrough. I had to purposely convince myself of the Indoctrination Theory just so I could ignore the mental trauma inflicted by that conclusion.
“I can start my second playthrough because they’ll announce any day now that the real ending is coming out soon…”
But then we hear today that Bioware actually considered it a suitable ending. It wasn’t a joke. It wasn’t some brilliantly conceived plan to indoctrinate the player. Clearly I gave Bioware too much credit. It was just a piss poor ending that Bioware thought it could sneak past us.
I’m left scratching my head. Did Bioware not anticipate such a spirited response from the fans? What were they thinking? It sounds stupid, but I can’t trust Bioware anymore–even if they make this right. I can’t help but be suspicious of anything else they make from now on.
Also, someone mentioned Brent Knowles (Lead Designer on Dragon Age: Origins) farther up the thread. I tracked this link down with some of his comments. Sounds pretty spot-on.
http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/r0z6p/brent_knowles_lead_designer_on_dragon_age_origins/
“I read one recent blog post where the writer basically said “the [Mass Effect 3] ending was awesome because it was just like a movie” and I think she was missing the point.
It is a game. Not a movie.
And more specifically, its a role-playing game. The players are *part* of the game. Part of the process of building and experiencing the game, much more so than with most other forms of entertainment.
Entitlement is really a right, for the gamer, because they have participated, actively, in the game itself.
Again, I can’t speak to the actual ending myself, because I have not played it but in generally I’d say a Role-Playing Video Game Trilogy Ending should (try to) do the following:
1. Reward the player’s choices throughout the series. The big stuff they did should be noted. They should *feel* like they had a unique impact on the world.
2. End on a positive note. This is really important for video games… life in general is full of s***** stuff happening all the time. When I invest a hundred hours into a game I need to walk away feeling like a hero.
When you waste a couple hours of a person’s life with an artsy/depressing movie or short story or even a novel, it is more forgivable because the time spent is less. And presumably the consumer knew what they were going into when they started. Certain directors create certain styles of movie. Certain writers write specific types of fiction.
On the other hand somebody playing an epic role-playing video-game trilogy is going to *expect* to be the hero and save the universe. That’s why they are playing the game. When expectations don’t match reality, disappointment is created.
It might be an artistic/creative move to go with a different style of ending but I feel its the wrong choice, especially for a videogame *trilogy*. Make your middle game bleak if you want to, but end the series on a high note.”
– Brent Knowles, former lead designer at Bioware (Baldur’s Gate II, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age: Origins)
Answers like this, “Wondering what a character is going to do next is not a lack of closure… or, at least, not the sort we would worry about. I don’t really see a requirement to end a story with “and the character went on to be happy and nothing of interest occurred to them again”, and players wanting to know more is understandable but not really an issue.” Makes me believe that Brent Knowles is the reason that Dragon Age: Origins had any closure at all written into it. It also makes me question David Gaider ability to write an ending that has closure at all.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/315/index/10307731/4
Getting really tired about hearing about “artistic integrity” and the purity of the artist’s vision, or whatever you want to call it. Art has always been a commercial product. Our greatest masterpieces were often created by at the request of someone else. Michelangelo was forced to paint the Sistine Chapel – he didn’t want to. He wasn’t even a painter, he was a sculptor. Should we get rid of it because it doesn’t reflect his pure artistic vision?
And art gets changed all the time. How many movies have been changed because it didn’t play well to a test audience? You would probably have an easier time naming the ones that hadn’t.
The fact is, art doesn’t exist without audience. Art is meaningless without the person experiencing it, and it’s up to the individual audience members to experience it in their own unique ways. For some, Romeo and Juliet is a beautiful story of a love that is stronger than death itself. For others, it’s a story of two stupid kids that should have listened to their parents.
With a media like video games, and especially a game like Mass Effect, the line between artist and audience becomes even thinner, to the point where it could be argued that the audience actually becomes a co-artist with the developer. The story molds itself to the player’s decisions, so each player crafts their own unique narrative. They are an author, and so should have a say in how the story turns out.
Plus it’s just bad. Not just “lots of people think it’s bad”, it is objectively bad. Forget the plot holes, forget the inconsistencies. The proof that it’s a badly written ending can be expressed in three words: deus ex machina. For literally millenia, since its very inception in ancient Greece, authors have been warned against using this contrivance. It is universally recognized as being an example of bad writing. It’s a literary white flag that screams to the audience that the author had no idea what to do there, and so had to pull something out of thin air in order to progress.
I don’t think anyone wants to dictate to Bioware exactly what the ending should be. I certainly wouldn’t want them to take some script from the fans and just make that. I want them to do what they’ve done so well for so long – write a great story. Even their worst work up to this point has been better than most things out there. I honestly can’t understand what happened here, how they could have done such an abrupt 180 in the last 5 minutes of this franchise, and created something so horrible when everything else was equally as great as this was bad.
Something that people need to understand is that just because someone has thr right to do something doesn’t mean it is the right thing to do. Just because Bioware has the right to do w/e they want with the game doesn’t mean they shouldn’t listen to the fans. Just because those guys have the right to comment on the situation doesn’t mean what they are saying is true. People need to see that just because someone has the right to do or say something does not mean they should.